Part 18 The Father does not have a body

I am answering the question does God the Father have a body?  My first point was the Bible teaches God is a spirit (part 17).  Here I am giving additional support.

−       God does not change and never progressed from a man to God

Mal. 3:6 “For I, the Lord, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.”

Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains were born, Or Thou didst give birth to the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, Thou art God.

Mormons believe God the Father has a physical body because he once was a human like us and reached “exaltation” and became a god.  The Psalmist and Malachi both say for all eternity God has always been God.  God never changes!

−       God is invisible.

1 Timothy 1:17a “Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God.”

Col. 1:15 “And He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation.”

How can God have a physical body if He is invisible?  An invisible God must be immaterial.

So what do we learn from these clear scriptures?  The phrase “Jesus standing at the right hand of God” in Acts 7 couldn’t be referring to God the Father’s physical body because God is spirit, God is invisible, and He has always been God.  So what did Luke mean when he quoted Stephen in Acts 7, who said he saw “…Jesus standing at the right hand of God.” [Refer back to part 17]

−       Right hand is a common Hebrew expression referring to the position of power and authority.

Ask Mormon Missionaries if they have you ever heard someone say, “You know Bill; he is my right hand man down at the office?”  The Hebrews used “right hand” in a similar fashion; referring to a position of power and authority.

Psalm 45:4 In your majesty ride forth victoriously in behalf of truth, humility and righteousness; let your right hand display awesome deeds.

Can God hold awesome deeds in His hand?  Here right hand refers to the power to accomplish great things.  It could read, “Let your power and authority display awesome deeds.”  That paraphrase makes perfect sense.

Psalm 48:10Like your name, O God, your praise reaches to the ends of the earth; your right hand is filled with righteousness.

How can God’s right hand be filled with righteousness?  How much does it weigh? How much space does righteous take up?  Is it hard to hold?  What makes more sense is God’s power and authority can be filled with righteousness.

If we add to our case the strong evidence God is spirit, invisible, and has never changed, we can be confident the reference to God the Father’s right hand must be a Hebrew expression.  Looking back at Stephen in Acts 7, when he saw Jesus at the right hand of God, he was seeing Him in the position of power and authority and not at the physical right hand of God.  The Bible teaches God the Father does not have a physical body.

Go to part 19 here

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{ 26 comments… add one }
  • Kevin Rudd October 25, 2013, 12:09 am

    Do you even read the stuff you write? You continually cite verses that contradict your points. Yes there are a lot of symbolic expressions in the scriptures. But when Stephen “sees” Jesus standing at the right hand of God, how would he know it was God, if God is so obviously invisible? When Jesus told the Apostles “If you have seen me then you have seen the Father,” what could that possibly mean if God, again, is invisible?

  • Steve Bruecker October 25, 2013, 6:37 pm

    When doing interpretation you work from the clear to the unclear. Here is the scripture in question: Acts 7:55 (KJV) “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.” So what did Stephen see? He saw the glory of God. What does that mean? First what is clear is the Bible teaches God is a spirit and is invisible. So if Stephen cannot see a spirit or an invisible being, he saw what God wanted him to see, His glory. Scholar and pastor John MacArthur writes in his commentary Acts 1-12: “God opened Stephen’s eyes to see the blazing Shekinah glory that revealed the presence of God the Father.”

    Kevin do you believe that God the Father was once a man like you and me and then lived a perfect life to become the God of this earth? Is this why you argue for Him having a body?


  • laki ini kay buta April 7, 2014, 12:56 am

    Jesus Christ is perfect after resurrection. Dwell with Heavenly Father in Heaven . JESUS EXPRESS IMAGE. steve you only pointed out that your God is not a perfect. If over and over you didn’t pray for the Knowledge of Holy Ghost you will still like this.
    Show me in the Bible what verses point out About danasours. Because your the man that ” to see is to believe ”

  • rashid somalinog April 7, 2014, 1:05 am

    Its true God was once a Man I testified. Because Lorenzo snow is a true Prophet. He knew that it never stated that in Bible. But he afraid not. Because God reveal this to is not fit to your more mind because you are not living in revelatio for our generation. In Pearl of great price said Worlds without number.. And this is not the world have a human race but worlds without number. It is not fit to your mind too. Amos 3:7

  • rashid somalinog April 7, 2014, 1:15 am

    Jesus Christ not afraid to tell in Jew that he is ” I am ” that he is God. Even though it is not fit in the belief of Jew. But he afraid not. Because it is true. The gospel is Bold. It is bold and strong because most of us.until now living and using the revelation from the generation of old testament until new. But now were in a new generation. We need the knowledge of new.
    That’s why I will never be surprice about Revelation 11:3-12

  • rashid somalinog April 7, 2014, 1:42 am

    When God revealed to Joseph Smith that God have flesh and bones. He never afraid even it is not stated in the bible and he didi’nt how to explain without contradicting in the bible. He afraid not because God
    Reveal it to him.

  • Steve Bruecker April 9, 2014, 2:27 pm

    Dear Laki,
    Why isn’t God the Father perfect? What did I write that gave you that impression?

    The Bible doesn’t ask us to pray for knowledge. We are to test all things and examine all things. In Acts 17:10-12 the Bereans are commended for studying to find truth. Mormons are taught to pray for a feeling to find truth because the church has lots to hide. They don’t want you investigating the life of Joseph Smith, what 100% of all non-Mormon archaeologists say about the Book of Mormon, and how the DNA evidence shows the ancient people groups mentioned in the Book of Mormon were not from Israel.

    Be wary of any church that teaches you to trust your heart over the evidence. Remember Satan masquerades as an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:13-14).


  • Steve Bruecker April 9, 2014, 2:32 pm

    Lorenzo Snow said the same thing Satan told Adam. That he could be like a god. Genesis 3:5 “For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.” The Bible teaches there is only 1 God. All others mentioned are false gods. The idea of becoming a god was a lie from the beginning. Satan fooled Adam and has been fooling the LDS Church for years. You cannot become a god.


  • Steve Bruecker April 9, 2014, 2:44 pm

    The Trinity teaches one God subsists in 3 persons Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; co-equal and co-eternal. Jesus did claim to be God in John 8:58: Jesus said unto them, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” He was referring to the statement made to Moses in Exodus 3:14: And God said unto Moses, “I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.” Now your church teaches the English word LORD is Jehovah, representing Jesus. Your church also teaches the English word God is Elohim, representing the Father. Let’s look at the Exodus passage again, examining the key words. “God said unto Moses, ‘I AM THAT I AM.'” Your church would translate this as “Elohim said unto Moses, ‘I AM THAT I AM.'” Which in the English says, “The Father said unto Moses, ‘I AM THAT I AM.'” You have a contradiction. In the Old Testament the Father says He is the I AM. In the New Testament it is Jesus who says I am the I AM. In your church is Jesus the Father?

    The only solution to this problem is the doctrine of the Trinity.


  • Steve Bruecker April 9, 2014, 2:47 pm

    The fact Joseph Smith contradicted the Word of God (Bible) demonstrates he did not get his information from God.


  • rashid somalinog April 10, 2014, 11:33 pm

    when satan says to Adam that they can become a God, he was saying the truth but in evil motive, God knows that the Fall is necessary for our salvation. For knowing the right and wrong, if we choose righteousness or captivity of satan,we can never be progress without knowing the right and wrong, . Satan knows what is ouur truly purpose here. To test our faith,ang to God to look who is men that can be inherit to his kingdom and trown, Heavenly Father been in this scenario.. because God was once a man, And Jesus Christ too, for doing the things that Father did before. This is the true purpose for living here, Jesus Christ says to the jews that they are god, we are god, they never understand that because they are living in old revelation.We are the Son and daughter of God. if we use our free will in righteous way and do all the commandments and laws that revealed to the prophets . God put us in this world have the elements of Law, which law that we follow this is the law for us, Celestial law, terestial law,telestial law even outher darkness. you never know that because you’re living in old revelation,. the revelation in old testament and new testament, that necessary for their salvation. and we have the additional knowledge for us in our new generation, because God is live, and spoken in our generation now. Amos 3:7. and I believe that God never change if he use to call a Prophet a representative of God here in earth ,because he didnt came down here sand speek to us, but through prophet he did.. he always speek. He is a live and never change.. because the True Church have the prophet and apostle. evangelist etc . the true church is complete complete, not incomplete. we LDS have the spirit of revelation. Rev 19:10 and prophet is needfull until The second coming. Rev 11:3-12.

  • rashid somalinog April 10, 2014, 11:47 pm

    1 of my thousand experience that I testified in new revelation. when the missionary of JW, came to my little house, they would like to prove that Jesus Christ is not a creator for using PROVERBS 8:22-31 they said that the person speek in that verse is Jesus Christ. to prove the Col 1:15. that Christ is created person or a co maker of Heavenly Father, and not a creator. But when I remember one of a Prophet in this lat days spooken that when Jesus Christ created this world, all of the men that choosen is helping to create this world, all the elements that necessary. thats why in Gen 1:26-27. in proverbs the person spooken is not Jesus Christ but the person, that God revealed to Him that he one of the among the HelpingJesus Christ/Jehovah to create this world.

  • Steve Bruecker April 11, 2014, 3:42 pm

    So you are saying Satan can tell the truth. Jesus disagreed with you. John 8:42-44 Jesus said unto them, “If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie,he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” You say Satan spoke the truth and Jesus says Satan cannot speak the truth; he is the Father of lies. Is Jesus right or are you right? If Jesus is right then you are following the father of lies, Satan.

    The Bible teaches there is only 1 God. All other times the Bible mentions gods, they are always false gods. Here are some verses that directly state there is only 1 God:
    1. Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. See also 1 Kings 18:39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.
    2. Deuteronomy 6:4 — Hear, O Israel: The LORD thy God is one LORD. [Note in Mark 12:28-34 how Jesus and a Jewish scribe he encountered understood this text. See below…]
    3. Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
    4. 2 Samuel 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
    5. 1 Kings 8:60 — That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
    6. 2 KINGS 5:15 — And he returned to the man of God, he and all his company, and came, and stood before him: and he said, Behold, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, but in Israel; now therefore, I pray thee, take a blessing of thy servant.
    7. 2 Kings 19:15 — And Hezekiah prayed before the LORD, and said, O LORD God of Israel, which dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; thou hast made heaven and earth.
    8. 1 Chronicles 17:20 — O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
    9. Nehemiah 9:6 — Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou has made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
    10. Psalm 18:31 — For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?
    11. Psalm 86:10 — For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.
    12. Isaiah 37:16,20 — O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou has made heaven and earth. (20) Now therefore, O LORD our God, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that thou art the LORD, even thou only.
    13. Isaiah 43:10,11 — Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
    14. Isaiah 44:6,8 — Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. Fear ye not, neither be afraid; have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
    15. Isaiah 45:21 — Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time: who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.
    16. Isaiah 46:9 — For I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.
    17. Hosea 13:4 — Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me; for there is no savior beside me.
    18. Joel 2:27 — And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
    19. Zechariah 14:9 — And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
    20. Mark 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices. And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that dared ask him any question.
    21. John 17:3 — And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
    22. Romans 3:30 — Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
    23. 1 Corinthians 8:4-6 — As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
    24. Galatians 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
    25. Ephesians 4:6 — One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
    26. 1 Timothy 1:17 — Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
    27. 1 Timothy 2:5 — For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
    28. James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.


  • Steve Bruecker April 11, 2014, 3:50 pm

    I showed you how absurd your belief that Jesus is Jehovah and you changed to talking about Jesus as creator. John 1:3 and Col. 1:16-18 state Jesus is the uncreated creator. He created “all things” which means anything that came into existence, it was by him. Jesus cannot create Himself, therefore, He must be the uncreated creator.

    Are you willing to admit you have no idea how to answer my challenge, that trying to show Jesus as Jehovah in the Old Testament is silly? Unless you are willing to proclaim Jesus is the Father! That of course would be considered heretical by the Christian Church.


  • rashid somalinog April 14, 2014, 2:57 am

    Yeah brother I believe that Jesus Christ is uncreated. Because he is the creator. He is the Father of this earth and God. And Heavenly Father is the God of our Spirit we’ve been to Him. I’m sorry I can’t speek English very well. I can’t express what I’m like talking too. But I know what your point is. I’ve heard that hundred times. But I’m trying to express what my heart saying.

  • rashid somalinog April 14, 2014, 3:13 am

    I believe that Jehovah of old is Jesus Christ. He is the Rock. he is Almighty and Our God. Because the Father and Christ are One. They Are incomprehensible. Without the knowledge came from Holy Ghost and without authority. Were always blind with the philosophy and corrupted bible. And always depend to the terminology and logic came from man not from God. One author said this is the new English expression of this word ”is” then you believe from that author. But not from God. You are the man believe in books that made by Man. But I Rashid believe by the revelation came from God. And the Book of Mormon came from God and Prophet that he give her own lives. And testimony of witnesses . testimony that they hold until they die.
    Even the whole world persecute the Saints so be it. Theirs always an opposition.

  • rashid somalinog April 14, 2014, 5:21 am

    But if thou dost not believe the prophets, . . . the Lord Himself shall speak to thee, “who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but humbled Himself” . . . yea, I say, the Word of God became man, that thou mayest learn from man how man may become God. Is it not then monstrous, my friends, that while God is ceaselessly exhorting us to virtue, we should spurn His kindness and reject salvation?
    Quotation 2: It [the knowledge of the Gospel] leads us to the endless and perfect end, teaching us beforehand the future life that we shall lead, according to God, and with gods; after we are freed from all punishment and penalty which we undergo, in consequence of our sins, for salutary discipline. After which redemption the reward and the honors are assigned to those who have become perfect; when they have got done with perfection, and ceased from all service, though it be holy service, and among saints. They become pure in heart, and near to the Lord, there awaits their restoration to everlasting contemplation; and they are called by the appellation of gods, being destined to sit on thrones with the other gods that have been first put in their places by the Savior.

  • Steve Bruecker April 14, 2014, 2:22 pm

    If Jesus is Jehovah and Heavenly Father is elohim, then you still have a problem. Again I will point to key phrases in Deuteronomy 4:35 — “…know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.” Translated according to Mormonism: The Jesus he is Heavenly Father. Do you believe this?

    Deuteronomy 4:39 “…that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.” Translated according to Mormonism: That the Jesus he is Heavenly Father. Do you believe this?

    1 Kings 18:39 “The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.” Translated according to Mormonism: The Jesus, he is the Heavenly Father; the Jesus, he is the Heavenly Father. Do you see your problem?


  • Steve Bruecker April 14, 2014, 2:32 pm

    You believe in the writings of Joseph Smith, an occultist, treasure hunter, liar and polygamist (33 wives, 11 teenagers, and 11 had living husbands). And you say I believe in books by men, instead of God. This man was a liar from the beginning and you want to follow his writings.

    Then you attack the English language because the Bible refutes your position. “God is a spirit” has the “is” of predication, meaning spirit is the nature of His being. Colossians 1:15 also says God is invisible, which is what you’d expect if He was a spirit. The Bible also says God is unchanging and was never a man. Joseph Smith made up these doctrines that contradict the Bible. So now you decide to attack the Bible.

    You make the claim the Bible has been corrupted. First, it is accepted by your church as Scripture from God. And second, what is your proof? Do you have ancient manuscripts that are different from the over 5,600 manuscripts scholars have today?


  • Steve Bruecker April 14, 2014, 2:44 pm

    Yes God took on human flesh and Philippians 2 teaches that eloquently. But you believe in the reverse; that man can become a god. The Bible never teaches this and says over and over again there is only 1 God. You are believing the lies of Satan in Genesis 3, who said you could become like God. I posted 28 verses that says there is only 1 God. No gods formed before or after the 1 God. How do you explain the 28 verses that refute your position?

    You talk about perfection. Are you perfect? You will not enter the celestial kingdom unless you are perfect. Forgiveness is not possible unless you truly repent. True repentance means you never do that sin again. Have you shown God true repentance? From Doctrine and Covenants: “Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven.” (D&C 1:31–32). Are you living all the commandments so you can be forgiven? From Spencer Kimball in Miracle of forgiveness: “In other words, it is not real repentance until one has abandoned the error of his way and started on a new path. … The saving power does not extend to him who merely wants to change his life. True repentance prods one to action.” According to your church, without perfection, you will not be forgiven. Are you morally perfect? Who in your church is?


  • rashid somalinog April 14, 2014, 6:32 pm

    all that you said about Prophet Joseph smith, is some pf trash anti mormon book, im 22 years old now sence i became an Latter day saints i’ve read that anti mormon book over and over. so its not a surprice to me that you mentioned that, even all the book. because i know its easy to you to believe to that, than to rea the book of mormon and pray for yourself. if you din’t study the basic of the Doctrine , and keep jumping in the deep doctrine, specially that you in’t elieve in Latter day prophet. your still steve now until the end, but i respect that because that is your freewill,

  • rashid somalinog April 14, 2014, 11:21 pm

    Having a body does not limit God. He created it and we can presume it is a powerful tool, just as our vastly inferior, mortal bodies are great blessings to us. He has a body, as does Christ. They are distinct beings, yet one, just as the followers of Christ should be one (John 17:20-23) – meaning one in heart, mind, intent, will, etc. – but not one substance.

    While I feel that the LDS doctrine of the nature of God is purely Biblical, there is room for disagreement. But using that doctrinal disagreement to label someone as non-Christian is grossly improper. It would certainly rule out many of the earliest Christians and, in my opinion, the writers of the Bible themselves.

  • Steve Bruecker April 15, 2014, 6:35 am

    Everything I said about Joseph Smith is part of the historical record. You can live in your fantasy world, but the truth about Joseph Smith is well documented. Even Wikepedia which has both Mormon and non-Mormon contributors, contains much of the same information I posted. He was a treasure hunter, occultist, liar, polygamist (33 wives), and story teller. He was not a person to be trusted.

    You call sources that print actual history of Joseph Smith “anti-Mormon.” This is simply name calling. Instead of calling them names, check out the actual background of Joseph Smith.

    I recently met with missionaries and when we talked about the Book of Mormon, I mentioned Joseph Smith translated by placing his face in a hat with two stones. They claimed what I said was false and that I got that information from “anti-Mormon” sources. Recently, finally admitted Joseph Smith did translate with his head in a hat. The next time we met, the missionaries had to apologize. Web sites and books that are labeled “anti-Mormon” many times are giving the truth and Mormons don’t want to hear it. Name calling does nothing to help you.


  • Steve Bruecker April 15, 2014, 9:38 am

    I trashed all your posts that were copy and pasted articles. I will not post large amounts of Mormon propaganda from other sites. Please give me your opinion in your own words.
    I will address some of the issues in those posts I trashed.
    – Image: Genesis 1:27 (NASB) God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. What do we know about God from other Scriptures? God is a spirit, which means He is non-physical. God is invisible, which means He is non-physical. If we are made in his image and we are physical, then what does image mean? When I say, “I want to clean up my image,” that doesn’t mean I am going to try to physically make changes to my appearance. Image here has to do with making character changes. Paul writes in Romans 8: 29 (NASB) For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; Obviously, we share some of the attributes of God. Paul says we are to be conformed to the image of Christ. Does that mean we are to fix our physical appearance to look like him, even though we don’t have any idea what he looked like? Or do women have to try to look like a man? Absolutely, not! Paul says we are to live like Jesus lived. Being made in the image of God has to do with sharing in some of His attributes.

    – Ye are gods: Jesus in John 10:34 quoting from Psalm 82:6-7 (NASB) I said, “You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High. 7 “Nevertheless you will die like men And fall like any one of the princes.” Verse 2 tells us the writer was addressing judges or kings. In the eyes of the people they were like gods. However, the Psalmist says they will die like men, because they were men. Jesus was essentially saying, you have a problem with me calling myself the Son of God and in the Psalms judges were called gods. What’s your problem? The problem was Jesus was calling Himself the Son of God. He was making himself equal with Heavenly Father. How do I know this? John 5:17-18 (NASB) But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.” 18 For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. Even His enemies knew he was saying as the Son He is equal to the Father. Only the doctrine of the Trinity can solve the problem by teaching one God subsisting in 3 persons Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; co-equal and co-eternal.

    – The God: The Father is called in Greek – Ho Theos. It means “the God.” Jehovah Witnesses argue Jesus is not ho theos and so does the one source you quoted from. They contend ho theos is only used of the Father. However, the disciple Thomas disagrees with you. John 20:28-29 (NASB) Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.” Literally, Thomas called Jesus “the God of me and the Lord of me.” Thomas used the ho theos in addressing Jesus. He called Him “the God.” And to top it off Jesus commends him for calling Him “the God.” Both the Father and Son are called ho theos (the God). The only solution to the problem is the doctrine of the Trinity.

    – Many books not in the Bible quoted: So? 2 Timothy 3:16 (NASB) All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; God inspired the authors of the Bible. The books that weren’t part of the Bible, weren’t inspired by God. How do we know? Because they didn’t make it to the final canon of Scripture. Inspiration entails not only the writing but the process by which the books were chosen and survived. Do you really think God cannot manage to get His revelation to mankind? Do you really think He lost some of His books? If this is the god of Mormonism, then He is weak god.

    – Deification and the early church fathers: Mormons love to quote early church fathers because they think they support that we can become a god. Here are the problems: 1) After the death of the Apostles, Joseph Smith said the church went into apostasy and all the creeds were corrupt. The foundation of the creeds was the early church fathers. Then why quote them as if they are experts on becoming a god. You are quoting apostates, according to your church. You say they lost the truth but now they have the truth. You cannot have it both ways. 2) You need to understand the theological culture of that time period. Some writers said we were gods because as Christians we become immortal. Never dying is an attribute of God. Others said upon belief in Jesus we receive the Holy Spirit and that divine presence equaled becoming a god. 3) They never said we change from being a human to the nature of a god. 4) They never taught a progression from our mortal existence, to living a perfect life, and then becoming a god, as Mormonism teaches. 5) They taught there is only 1 God. No god formed before or after the one God. The early church fathers in no way agreed with the teachings of Mormonism.

  • rashid somalinog April 15, 2014, 6:16 pm

    , its not a propaganda, ITS an answer to the heresy that you said. its not fair if you didn’t post what i’ve said. how can we establish the truth.

  • Steve Bruecker April 17, 2014, 6:03 am

    If you know the truth, then tell me yourself. I can read or FAIR or Maxwell Institute on my own time. This is a comment section, so make your comments. Plus I took the time to hit the main issues and answered them. You can refute each of the sections I previously posted.


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