Is it okay to Work on Saturday?

Michael,
Absolutely! This is why we cannot earn heaven. We are all guilty before a holy God. Only through the cross of Jesus can we experience eternal life. He lived the life we should have lived (kept the law 100%) and died to pay a penalty we couldn’t pay. He is our substitute and by his sacrifice we can be healed.

Only by trusting Jesus can we be totally forgiven.

Steve Bruecker

David,
What do those verses you quoted teach? Are they commanding us to keep the Sabbath? Where is the command to keep the Sabbath in the New Testament? If I grant you the Sabbath will be reestablished on the new heaven and new earth, what about a command for today?

Steve Bruecker

Steve,
I reread your post of Sept 4 and you say it all there. ” We are all guilty before a holy God.” (and how is that guilt determined, by the Commandments. The Commandments point to sin “…I would not have known sin except through the law”…Romans 7:7… “where there is no law there is no transgression.” Romans 4:15
He”kept the law 100%” (that includes the 4th commandment, the Sabbath. “He led the life we should have lived” (keep the law 100%, including the Sabbath). I would like to make it clear that I don’t believe the law will save us. Only faith through grace can save us, but Paul is clear “do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.”
Let’s say you were pulled over by a cop (you broke the law / sinned). He said ‘I’m not going to give you a ticket this time (grace), go and sin no more’. Does this mean the law is no longer in effect? I don’t think so. It still applies. All of it.

David,
Have you read Acts 15 concerning the council at Jerusalem? What you are bringing up is exactly what some of the believing Pharisees were saying. Here are a few quotes from Acts 15. Here we see in the early church, the topic of, do believers have to follow the Mosaic covenant?

Acts 15:5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses.” You sure sound like a believing Pharisee. And then Peter stands up to end the controversy…

Acts 15:6-11 The apostles and the elders came together to look into this matter. 7 After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 “And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 10 “Now, therefore, why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 “But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are.”

David, it is as if Peter is saying to you, “Now, therefore, why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?”

As my post pointed out, as followers of Jesus and under the new covenant, we observe the universal moral laws, as prescribed in the New Testament. Worshiping on Saturdays falls under the Mosaic Covenant and is no longer a requirement. It is obsolete.

Steve

David,
I too have appreciated the civil discussion. You have been very respectful and your stances are well thought out.

Just a few points…
1. The New Covenant was in place until Jesus goes to the cross and then resurrects. We see it officially launched during the preaching of Peter in Acts 2. It is the Old Covenant was in place throughout the life of Jesus. Then at the last supper, he announces the coming of the New Covenant: Luke 22:20 (NASB) And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.” No New Covenant until the final sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Hebrews 10:14-18 (NASB) For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, 16 “THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,” He then says, 17 “AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.” 18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.” Your examples of Sabbath keeping only applied to the Jews during the Old Covenant.
2. The Mosaic Law was all laws given by God to Moses, including the 10 commandments. Nowhere in the NT do we see a separation between the 10 commandments and all the other laws given by God. These were written under a theocracy and specifically given to the nation of Israel. Only Jews of that time were under these laws. Exodus 19:5-6 (NIV) “Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.” God’s laws were written or spoken to the Nation of Israel – These laws did not apply to the Gentiles! They were held accountable to the laws God wrote on their hearts (Rom. 2).
3. Murder, lying, stealing (and others) were wrong even before the 10 commandments. Cain was held accountable for the murder of Abel because murder was and is a universal law. He was judged by the law written by God on his heart (Rom. 2). Stealing and the rest of the 10 commandments, except the Sabbath, are universal and repeated in the New Testament. There is no command to obey the Sabbath once the New Covenant is in place.
4. The Mosaic Covenant has ended: Hebrews 8:7-8: For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said: “The time is coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah…vs.12-13 “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.” 13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
5. Last point: You said I know of no commandment in the NT that does away with the Sabbath. I could say, “I know of no commandment in the NT that says that children shouldn’t be put to death for failing to honor their father and mother.” Since the Sabbath is part of the Mosaic Covenant it thus is done away with as Hebrews 8:7-8 states (above). Putting children to death for dishonoring parents was under the theocracy and for the nation of Israel only. It has been done away with and is not repeated in the NT after the New Covenant is established.

Thanks for a lively discussion,
Steve

David,
Sorry for not posting or getting back to you. I was on vacation.

The Old Covenant was a conditional or bilateral agreement that God made with the Israelites. The Old Covenant was in effect during the dispensation of the Law. It is “old” in comparison to the New Covenant, promised by Jeremiah the prophet (Jeremiah 31:31, 33) and made effective by the death of the Lord Jesus (Luke 22:20). In the Old Covenant, the Israelites were required to obey God and keep the Law, and in return, He protected and blessed them (Deuteronomy 30:15–18; 1 Samuel 12:14–15). In the New Covenant, things change and God becomes the proactive and unconditional source of salvation and blessing. In the New Covenant, “God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8).

The author of Hebrews details some of the differences between the Old Covenant and the New. The Old Covenant required repeated, daily sacrifices of animals as a reminder of the people’s sin. But “it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins” (Hebrews 10:4). Under the New Covenant, “we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” (verse 10), ending the need for animal sacrifices. “Where [sins and lawless acts] have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary” (verse 18).

Under the Old Covenant, only the high priest could enter the Most Holy Place where God’s presence dwelt—and that only once a year. But under the New Covenant, Jesus is our High Priest (Hebrews 10:21), “we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus” (verse 19), and we can “draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings” (verse 22).

Hebrews 8:7-13 (NASB) For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says, “BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; 9 NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD. 10 “FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 11 “AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN, AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, ‘KNOW THE LORD,’ FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM. 12 “FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE.” 13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Steve Bruecker

David,
I don’t mind defining terms I use. Please provide a scripture that says when making an argument you can only use scriptural terms. Scripture, please?

Steve

David,
We cannot escape using terms to defend our beliefs. The word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible but it is a useful term to describe what the Bible teaches. The word “Bible” is not found in the Bible. Also, the fact that the scriptures are translated into English forces us to use words not found the ancient texts. We have to depend on the skills of translators to make our case. So we cannot escape using words outside the Bible. This includes words like omnipresent, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent we use as examples that describe God’s attributes.

Here in Romans, Paul says God’s law is written on the hearts of Gentiles. Romans 2:12-16 (NIV) All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law,
15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Steve

No problem…I am looking forward to your reply.

Steve

Steve,
Please forgive me for taking so long.
All of the “keep My commandments” scripture I posted May 27 was written after the new covenant was established.
A few requests; I would still like you to show me the scripture that your “universal moral law” comes from.
I would also like to see the scripture that says the Ten Commandments and the law of Moses (your “Mosaic” law) were joined together as one. You say ‘show me in the NT where they are separated. I gave you the scripture showing them separate in the OT. I would say, show me scripture in the OT or the NT where they were joined together.
I know of no scripture anywhere that does away with the Sabbath.
The Israelites / Jews were to be a light to the nations / gentiles. IS 42:6, 49:6. Their laws were God’s laws. These laws that you are so quick to get rid of were to spread God’s government to the rest of the world. If they had been able to fulfill that covenant we would be speaking Hebrew. Their law would have been our law. We are, after all, Israelites in spirit. Rom 9:6, 7, 8.
Item 4 (post of June 1) ” The Mosaic covenant has ended”. Heb 8:7, 8 There’s nothing there about the law of Moses or the Ten Commandments ending. The new covenant puts God’s law INTO our hearts and minds. It establishes God’s laws, not end them. I don’t see any new laws appearing, so they must be the old laws He’s putting in our hearts and minds. Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial laws. So, if the Ten Commandments and the law of Moses are combined into one, like you say, then the hundreds of laws in the law of Moses and the Ten Commandments are together in our hearts and minds. If it’s as I say and the laws are separate, then it’s the Ten Commandments only.
In the old covenant God’s laws were written down. in the new covenant God’s laws are put in our hearts and minds. The law doesn’t change. It’s the same law. The way God gives the law is what changes. Old way, written down. New way, it’s put in our hearts. Since it’s not the laws that are affected, then the new covenant itself is just a new way or method of God giving us His law. What is ‘obsolete’ is the old way / method of giving the law, not the law itself.
You say the Sabbath is a burden but God says it’s a delight;
“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable, and shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor speaking your own words, then you shall delight yourself in the Lord; and I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the Lord has spoken.” IS 58: 13, 14 NKJV
” And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the Commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” REV 12:17
“Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the Commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.”
David

David,
As I have gone back over various posts you made, I have found assertions that need to be challenged. You said, “deny the Sabbath we deny Jesus since he is the Lord of the Sabbath.” How did you come to that conclusion? What does Lord of the Sabbath mean?

From the same post, you quoted Matthew 5:19 “Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven.” How are you doing keeping all the commandments? Have you broken any of the 613 commandments? If you are honest, you would say yes and then be called least in the kingdom of heaven. Unless you say you are perfect. Have you reached the perfection you are touting?

Steve

David,
I am sorry you seemed to be offended by the fact I disagreed with you. I provided answers but you ignored them. You didn’t call me a pagan but that is what an unbeliever is…and you called me an unbeliever! Two things I understand in our dialogue:
1. You believe your personal interpretation is what the Bible teaches. If I disagree with you, I am disagreeing with Scripture. I am sorry but you were just presenting your opinion and you need to defend it as I did.
2. By calling me an unbeliever, I realized you don’t know the gospel. I am sorry my question exposed that.

I won’t add anything else.

Steve